In this podcast, Mark Stallard interviews Julia de Battista from Hodge Bank about holiday let mortgages. Jules discusses how Hodge got into holiday let lending, what they have learnt in the time they have been lending, and the quality of property they see in the market. She also shares some amusing tales about unusual or quirky holiday let properties.
In this podcast, Julia de Battista from Hodge Bank, talks to Mark about holiday let mortgages. Jules discusses how Hodge got into holiday let lending, what they have learnt in the time they have been lending, and the quality of property they see in the market. She also shares some amusing tales about unusual or quirky holiday let properties.
Julia also provides valuable insights into the holiday let lending market, and some of the history behind Hodge bank and how they give back to the community. This interview is a great resource for anyone who is considering investing in a holiday let property.
Here are some of the key takeaways:
Holiday let lending is a growing market, and there are now many lenders who offer specialist products.
Lenders will look at a number of factors when assessing a holiday let mortgage application, including the quality of the property, the borrower's financial history, and the rental potential of the property.
Holiday let mortgages can be a good way to generate income and build equity, but they are not without risks. Borrowers should carefully consider their financial situation before investing in a holiday let property.
Overall, this is a informative and entertaining podcast that provides valuable insights into the holiday let lending market.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT -- Holiday Let Mortgages: A Lender's Perspective
House and holiday home mortgages in the next exciting edition. Our podcast, our podcast that talks about mortgages, talks about holiday home mortgages, talks about holiday let mortgages and all things going on in the mortgage world. We're here to entertain, amuse but also educate, and I'm very, very pleased to be joined this morning by Julia de Batista from Hodge Bank.
So Jules, good morning.
Good morning, mark. Thank you very much for inviting me along. I'm well, really excited to be here talking to you about holiday let mortgages today.
Right. Okay. Well Jules, we'll introduce you properly in terms of what you do in a second but I think it's just important to have a lender's perspective. We talk about we talk to surveyors and solicitors and estate agents and I think it's really important to understand. Pick the bonnet up, take the dashboard out, have a look in the engine, see what's going on. See how the people that effectively give you the money. What are they thinking about? What are they doing? How do they get into this? That kind of stuff. That's what I want to do today. Now, Jules, just the sort of social stuff, so where are you and tell me a little bit about yourself.
Yeah. So, where I am in the world is in lovely South Wales. Lovely. Which is where Hodge Bank started as well. So we are, a Welsh lender but with a national reach. So, we lend across England, Wales, and Scotland. And for me personally, so I've been in the mortgage business for quite a long time. I've done quite a number of roles through advising like yourself, Mark, underwriting, product development, so pretty much that end-to-end kind of customer journey. So, for me, I think, you know, it's really important to understand that journey and that the customer is at the heart of everything that we do.
Brilliant. Thank you. That's absolutely fabulous. You know, just a little note ladies and gentlemen, I've been trying to get Jules out of Wales back into England, but it's failed. She doesn't even want to come out now. So, my whole campaign, I had to tear up my posters. I had to burn my placards.
Jules wants to stay in Wales. Fine. Brilliant. It's a lovely part of the world. What can I say? Well, I must tell you that Mr. Stallard Jr. Went to North Wales and he liked it very much. He went on that big zippy wire thingy and he liked it and he said he wants to stay in North Wales. So, there you go. So, this is all good. I've still had to break it to him that his grandmother was called Harris. And there's a lot of Welsh in the Stallard family that we don't talk about, but we should do. So, I know Mrs. Graham will be listening to this and I know this will make her chuckle, but we're all good. Jules, let's get into the sort of serious stuff. Tell me about Hodge and, and how -- why and how did Hodge get into holiday that lending?
So, Mark, Hodge have very much had their roots from a lending perspective, entrenched in the later life space, but you know, also, have that innovative kind of startup approach. So, one of the first lenders in equity release, one of the first lenders to launch RIO, for example. Now, I'm not saying we were the first in the holiday let space, but certainly looking to broaden out that reach, diversify the product set. Actually, what was interesting is that when we did our initial research, the average age of a holiday let customer is that kind of late forties, early fifties customer, because as you already know, holiday let is, you know, not for everybody. There are -- you really need to understand the market. You need to understand what you're doing. There are challenges around managing fluctuations in income, for example. So we found that age bracket really fit very well with the target market for holiday there, and of course, Hodge being already there.
It felt like a good affinity. It was a growing market, so cast your mind back to sort of like 2019. And when I think about my previous experiences of holiday, let, there were actually very few lenders there at the start, and it tended to be the more -- perhaps your building societies, your local building societies, your specialists, lenders who are really serving that marketplace.
So, it still felt a very you know, positive area of the lending space that we could serve the underserved, which is what we're about, that we could play in from a demographic perspective. And certainly, it felt like a good affinity with our target audience already, sort of moving forward almost five years. And it's just really interesting to see how many more lenders are actually in that space. And I think, you know, that is attributed to how the holiday let market has grown and expanded has become more visible over that time.
Brilliant, brilliant. That's a really comprehensive answer and I think I'm going to pop this in now so that we don't have to say it again. Obviously, ladies and gentlemen, there are lots of holiday let lenders. HHH has probably nearly 30 altogether. So, this is not a Hodge commercial. This is today. This is all about Jules speaking about holiday let lending, you know, but knowing that lots and lots about Hodge. So please don't think we are solely promoting Hodge we're not -- but today this is a great chance for me to speak to someone who you can already see knows exactly what's going on, and hopefully people you'll enjoy hearing 87466what Jules has got to say. So, Jules, what, what do you think Hodge learnt in the time that they'd been lending, holiday-let wise?
So, I think that's a really good point that you make there, Mark, about how many lenders there are operating in the market now. And, you know we do benchmark ourselves against our competitors in the market. Absolutely. We, you know we keep a weather eye on what they are doing, but for me, I think it's a real positive that there is more customer optionality.
So, as you've just alluded to, as an advisor and for your customers, there are more options to, you know, for, for what they want to do, their goals that they want to achieve. And I think from a lender perspective, and this is something that I've absolutely learnt. It does drive us to remain relevant in the market and to keep innovating and to keep understanding where those perhaps gaps might still be where we can continue to support customers.
So, I think as a lender, we don't think, oh my goodness, you know, the playing field has suddenly broadened with all of these other lenders coming in. Well, you know, we do a little bit, but I think we still have that positive view that there's a lot of business out there is still a growing area of the market. And you know, we've just gotten that really big opportunity now to understand our brokers, to understand our customers and to be able to support them in those longer-term goals with what they actually want to achieve. So, for me, from a product development perspective, that’s exactly where my mindset is. That's exactly where I feel that we need to be and that we need to keep going and keep innovating and keep making changes to adapt to the target audience.
Yeah, I think so. Cause I think Jules, when we started, or when I started back when the good Lord wore short pants I thought, I think that it was really about someone from London who wanted to buy a nice house in Cornwall overlooking the sea, and there was a few of those, and that's where holiday lending started. Really it was all very straightforward I think that a lot of small lenders joined the party along with one or two bigger ones and as you say, I'm, I'm so pleased to hear that. So you say that you want to really get under the bonnet because I think now, you know, conversations every day we have are with clients who have an annex, clients who have a holiday let property on the title of their main residence, clients who want to borrow on big, smart gated parks -- these are the conversations we're having.
So, it has changed an awful lot, hasn't it?
Absolutely. And I think property is a really interesting one. Mark. You know, when, when I look at the quality of the business that we receive from a holiday let perspective, certainly from, you know, both sides of the coin. So, from a credit angle, we see good quality clients with really clean credit histories. Like I alluded to at the, the start of the call, you know, it's not for everyone to have the size of deposit, for example, that's required to be able to purchase a property, a second property, to be able to support yourself financially when there might be a rental void, for example. Or to be able to understand the fluctuations of the rental income. You know, that is really important for client for me. That's where advice really adds the value, is helping the customers understand how to manage the property and the income moving forward, but we also see really good high-quality property. And funnily enough, I was thinking about this ahead of the conversation because it's such a different proposition from a standard let for example, your customer base, you know, they want a destination. They want experience, but they want something that's different to, you know, just a box of a of a hotel, for example. So just thinking about what holiday let landlords are offering to their customers, we see some fabulous destination properties because the landlord understands their, their customers. So again as a lender, I think the quality of the property that comes through is really strong.
Yes, you're right.
We see some, some quirky things, we see, you know, annexes, we see, we've seen castles and things like that. So yes, there are some kind of challenges as a small lender around understanding the proposition. But I think as a whole, as a portfolio, we see some fantastic quality of lending in this particular space.
Great. And have you got any amusing tales about any sort of particular unusual or different inquiries you've had? That's an unfair question, but I'm going to throw it at you so not being like kind of close to the underwriting side as perhaps as I once was.
So I think yes, just, just to allude to potentially sort of like the castle. That we saw. Don't get me wrong, it was a fabulous castle in Scotland. I could very much imagine wanting to holiday there it was in a wonderful place. But I think just for us as a lender, when we think about our assessment of risk, we're always looking for that angle. You know, could we sell it as a home, could we sell it on the open market as a main residence and, well, I'm not sure how many Kings of Scotland there are now. So, whether that was going to be a future option for us I'm not really sure.
Sure. Lovely. That's actually a really good answer because that leads into the next question really, which is you are a product maker Julie. What's, tell me about that and tell me what you, how you work in terms of thinking about innovations and, and where, how does it, I think this is relevant to a, perhaps a customer listening in who's thinking, you know, should I do this? Where do you, where do you start?
Yes, sure. So, not to kind of labour the point, but you know we start and end with the customer always really. So we think about, you know, when we're developing an idea, yes, we have to think about how it fits in with our strategic and commercial aspirations as a lender. But at the end of the day, we need to have that vision of what our end customer looks like, what they want, what their hopes and aspirations are, what they're going to pay for the product. You know, all of those things. So, we start with the customer and then from there we do an awful lot of research. We've got a really great insights team at Hodge. We are very lucky that, you know, we're able to really get into that detail of the quantitative and qualitative data. So, But I think for me as a product developer, the most important step of that initial discovery is actually talking to our brokers. As you know, Mark, we talked to you guys at length prior to launching into the holiday let market, you know, you gave us that real granular insight into what your customers tell you, what you see every day, what other lenders are doing, what they aren't doing, what, you know, what we could do better.
So, you know, we do start with that kind of desktop research, if you like, but for me, talking to the people who actually do the do is, is the most important part. And then kind of moving forward, we always need to be mindful of that end-to-end journey. So, it's not just the customer comes to us, they take a mortgage, but things might happen throughout that life cycle. So, we like to think about that. So, they might want to come back to us for some additional borrowing, for example. So, we need to make sure that we build all of those processes in and actually, We're seeing that quite a lot at the moment with our holiday let customers, they're looking at borrowing because their properties have increased in value or maybe they've bought one and it's worked really well and they want to buy another one. So, you know, it's thinking outside of just that acquisition and what they might like to do and what they might want our support with throughout the life cycle of, of the mortgage and the life cycle of being with Hodge.
Okay, brilliant. Now I'm going to pop next door cause there's one or two little elephants in the room next door. And I just want to bring one or two little elephants in here -- just stuff that's happening at the moment, I think things that are important to talk about. So let's just talk a little bit, so very much from a customer perspective that you're very good at alluding to -- licensing. What do we understand about licensing? Is it a worry? Should we all be running for the hills? Tell me about licensing. Julie, Jules, sorry.
Yes. So, because we lend in Scotland, I think Scotland have been ahead of the game and you can kind of understand it. I don't know, you know, if you've ever visited Edinburgh, I think, you know, there's, there is a, a limited amount of property then, and I can completely understand the viewpoint of, you know, providing homes for, for local people, not just for ownership, but for the private rental sector as well. So, you know, I cannot understand it, but I think the key from a customer perspective, certainly in my opinion, is that they do get that specialist advice again. So we've very luckily got some strong legal counsel in Scotland and they've really helped us to get under the skin of it and to understand what the licensing means, not just for us, but for the customer and we have put some additional measures in place, and again, we have worked very closely with our, with our broker firms in Scotland because they will also support customers through what potentially could be a minefield. But, I think for me the key is going to be understanding the regional differences. Even the regions within the regions. So for example, I know that Brighton have looked at restricting new builds so that they're only available for local people, there's been much talk around the WBE kind of area, and again, in Wales you know, there is already some legislation in place and probably more to follow.
But I think again, for me, it's the customer just ensuring that they go into the investment with their eyes wide open and that they obtain some advice.
So, some strong advice, both from the financial side and from the legal side. Cause I think Jules, you know absolutely right. We can't have a country completely overrun, with holiday lets, and first-time buyers all in tents. That just doesn't work and I think on the counterpoint to that as well I know people in Cornwall have told me that they and people who help the homeowners in this sector. The concern they have, of course, is that you could turn a, a small village into a ghost town if you stop second homes because holiday homes and holiday lets, it's about the pub, it's about employment in the pub. It's about employing cleaners. It's about employing changeover staff in gardeners and everything else. So, they do give a source of income, don't they? And a source of employment in these areas.
Absolutely. I think it's about not having a knee jerk, one size fits all reaction and taking a balanced view.
Yes, and again, you know, as a lender, we will look at kind of our concentration risks and we'll balance that for, you know, across our portfolio. So, we should probably look to do something similar as a country, really, in as much as you've just alluded to, Mark, you know, some areas are more attractive as holiday destinations, and it is still important to provide affordable housing for people who live in those areas, but not at the detriment of you know, of hospitality.
Yes, I think that, it is a very important part of our sector now. I mean, anybody who's stood in an airport taking their belt off and their shoes off and emptying their liquid and goodness knows what I think sometimes you think, is that holiday in Costa wherever, is it actually worth all the hassle? Whereas we, you know, we can go and get an electric car, drive down the M5, spend two weeks in the most beautiful part of the country or across to, you know, Pembrokeshire or wherever. So, it is important as well. I think it's really important for the country. I think go on.
Even from a cost perspective I think the view from previously was that a package holiday abroad was a more cost-effective holiday. But I, you know, talking to some of my friends who've been away, particularly stateside this year the cost of holidaying abroad has increased significantly. And you know, we are in a cost of living crisis, so to be able to take some regular short breaks away in this country I feel is, is probably, you know, advantageous to some people who, you know, who perhaps wouldn't ordinarily get a break. And they do want to have a holiday with their family. Okay, so before I pop the license in and regulation elephants back in their little cage, your message then simply is basically research, read and take advice.
Yes, absolutely. Yes. Just make sure that you fully understand your requirements, your obligations under, you know, legal regulations or what that looks like.
Absolutely. So is your understanding, if I'm asking one specific, is your understanding in Scotland that you have to have the license before you buy the property?
So it depends where you are. So Edinburgh in particular, you have to have at least applied for the license.
Right. Okay. So, that's the specific coming in, isn't it?
It's all different, as you say, region by region. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. And that's, that's the challenge is that the regional different, you know, differentiation. So particularly if you are, you know, a landlord with perhaps a number of properties around the country, I think that's probably even more important to make sure you do the research. Okay. Now, if I'm a buy to let landlord, I'm starting to hear lots of stuff about EPCs and making my property energy efficient by a certain date, et cetera, et cetera. Where are we with EPCs and Holiday lets?
So it depends who you talk to, I think. So, from our perspective at Hodge, the regulation is very much so that holiday lets are not currently within that buy to let, E P C.
However, will that always be the case? If, you know, if I'd put money on it, I think I would say at some point it will become a requirement. But look, I think it's going to become a requirement for all property. So, you know, let's not kind of lose sight of that at some point. All of us, as homeowners, as landlords, that the climate change, the impact of our properties, whether we live in it or rent it out. We are going to have to contribute to that in one way, shape, or form. And actually the rise of the green staycation is something that's becoming quite popular. And I don't necessarily mean, you know, going to a cottage, but certainly people are really interested in glamping and, and all of that kind of thing. So, I feel that there is still an opportunity. I think there's an opportunity there for, for landlords and for holiday, let owners to be able to say, yes, this is what we do. This is how we contribute to the community and to the world community as a whole. So I, you know, I think it's coming. If I had to, and that's just my opinion only, no one else’s. Yes, but it's coming for all of us, not just in that particular sector.
Yes. No, I think you're right I think people do, when they arrive at their holiday destination, they like to see that some effort has been made. You know, a solar panel on the roof, a wind, a wind turbine, you know, a modern, eco-friendly, wood burning, stove, whatever, proper recycling stuff and all that kind of stuff. So, I think people absolutely want to see that stuff, don't they? So, message to customer not there yet, but it's coming. And do what you can because don't ignore it, because it will come out at some stage.
Absolutely. And I think that, you know, the holiday let customers, the end customer will be -- are more aware. I mean, I think, you know, from my experiences, how nice it is when you get there and there's some local produce, you know, that's just come from up the road. So, you know, just those kinds of touches I think are, are really important. And they just add something to the local community as well. Absolutely, absolutely, you don't need to know this, but our debate this morning, I was doing my final consumer duty examination. Yes, so I'm consumer duty ready now, Jules but I find it quite interesting because I know what consumer duty is. You know what consumer duty is, but I'm not really sure the customer understands what even consumer duty is. He or she will hear about it. But let's give them a little flavour. Consumer duty from Hodge's point of view, what does it mean to a customer?
So that's a really good question. I've been in duty as well for a number of months now, so it's interesting because whilst Holiday Let is actually technically a non-regulated product at Hodge, we've still applied the same due diligence across holiday let as the rest of our product range, just because we feel it's important to give customers that kind of level playing field as it were.
So, I think from a customer's perspective it should be clearer from a, you know, a products and services and a price and value, to be able to compare Hodge products as you with, with other lenders, for example. I know we talked about that at the start of the core and how important it is that, you know, there are, is that customer optionality.
So, for us, it's been a really positive exercise because we have had the bonnet open. We've looked at the value that we give to customers, the features and the benefits of our products, and making sure that they do align to the target market. Pleased to say that, that we are absolutely there. We, you know, we do monitor our target market. We look very closely at the product features, benefits, the proposition – that it does meet the aspirations of the people that we intended it to, but also from a servicing angle. So, I know we, again, we've touched upon that, but it's just that life cycle of the customer's journey with us. And do they want to do anything throughout that life cycle? Are we putting any barriers in their place to, to kind of stop that? So, I think it's just been a really, really good opportunity as a lender to be able to put all of that stuff under the microscope and make some tweaks as, as we found necessary. So, you know, I'm sure that we wouldn't be the only lender to say, actually, we found things that we can do better. You know, it's not a one and done. It's an ongoing process, but I think this has been a really, really good starting point. So, from the customer perspective, will they truly see, sort of like anything that, you know, will be glaringly obvious. I think time will out, but I do feel that they should be assured that they are receiving the best possible product, the best possible value, and the best possible service from lenders and brokers alike. Good?
Yes, no good. It is interesting. Stallard Mansion Towers received a quote yesterday for an item for the new Stallard mansion Towers. Yes. And we had, I had to ring the guy up twice to ask him to send the quote when the quote came yesterday. It doesn't make any sense. I don't know what he's quoting for. I don't know. I won't. I don't want to sort of say what this was, but it doesn't matter. I have to go back to him and say, does it include this? Does it include this? What about that? You haven't put that in on the back. You said that this may be included. Is this included? And it's just completely so consumer duty should apply across the board. Yes. We've been trying, we've been trying to buy some bar stools for for the mansion, kitchen, and you wouldn't believe how difficult that is. I'm afraid that, that, that, that as a, as a country, we don't train our staff because we don't like the word sales, so we don't train them to be salespeople. So therefore, we have totally unintelligible conversations with people and they can't even ask you questions like, how big is your kitchen? How many of these do you want? What are you looking for? How much money do you want to spend? And that in my head is what consumer duty is. It's about doing it correctly. It's about explaining everything very carefully and yes I mean, I think I've been doing it a long time, but I would say that wouldn't make, but no, fair enough. I mean, if it needs to be brought in, then fine, because if it stops bad conversations and a little commercial for Hodge Bank here with your holiday lets you have an unsung feature -- benefit, whichever you, where you want to call it, whereby if a client sells that property because it's not for them. You don't charge early repayment charge. Now that is a really strong message. It's a really strong tool and we have used it with someone because as you, I think started off the conversation earlier on, it's not for everybody and people, I think Jules, read in the media that holiday lets were a thing during the pandemic and everybody rushed out and bought a holiday let and they actually forgot they'd have to manage it and they'd have to get someone to change the sheets every Friday, not every six months and yes, holiday lets is hard work, isn't there?
Yes, absolutely. So yes, that's our early repayment promise, you know, again, it's just really understanding the customer, what they might need and ensuring that the, you know, the product features are working as intended.
Okay. And that leads me nicely to the next point, which is what if a customer out, out here listening to this, is thinking about buying a holiday let? Tell me some things they should be thinking about, that will come up. At a mortgage interview or a, a discussion with an estate agent when they buy that property. What if you were looking to buy in Pembrokeshire Jules, what would you be thinking of now?
Yes, so I think it is really important to kind of think about what, you know, what you are offering to your customers and, and why in Pembrokeshire and, you know, thinking about your end customer. I know we've talked a lot about that today, but I think again, that, that kind of leads on through to the holiday let landlord, for example, is you know, who are they appealing to? Who's their customer? So, what does the property look like? What does the, the property offer, what's in the surrounding area? And absolutely, you know, as a lender, so we are for a letting agent letter to confirm you know, the rental achievable and that that's how we assess. Affordability based on the rental achievable. So again, you know, that is a very important part of the process, not just for the lender, but also for the customer, because they need to be able to understand, you know, what their rental yields are, what their costs are going to be. You really need to have a think about, you know, your income and outgoings expenditure for that standalone property and thinking about if there are some voids or you need to do some work and you're not able to rent it out for a short time. Again, as a lender, we very much look at all of those things. I think what I'm saying really is, you know, tell us the story? What’s the background? What's the story with this particular customer? Why are they buying this property? What is their intention around it? How will they manage it? How will they afford to manage it from their own income as well as their rental income? So, we don't ask for a minim income, but we do want to understand how you know that that property will be managed. So, tell the story, I think, and with my underwriting head on from previous experience, that's always what I wanted to know. You know, I'd pick up the phone and speak to the broker and say, tell me about this customer and I know Mark -- reading some of your blog posts, et cetera on LinkedIn, that's what you guys do really, really well. I was reading one the other day about, funnily enough, it wasn't a holiday let one, it was an equity release one, which I know that you support customers in as well, and it really gave that aspect. So, I think that's what's really important. It's not just a transaction between us. I think we really need to understand that side of things and why that customer is doing that and what their aspirations are.
Yes. No, you're making me think because I, I remember it. Yes, no, I remember a conversation -- quite often have a conversation whereby someone will say, we're going to buy in X, Y, Z town in Cornwall. Because that's where we want to retire to. And I'm of the opinion that actually a commercial holiday let is probably not the house that you are going to retire to. So, you probably ought to be thinking almost of that in two stages, having your holiday let going to spend some time in it in the next 10, 15 years, and then maybe considering selling it and buying, you know, three miles up the road in a different place because a holiday let in exciting flamboyant, busy new is a very different prospect to a holiday let in a tiny Cornish village where there is no shop, no pub, and actually might not attract a Cornish holiday maker. So very, very different. And I also remember, Jules, I have to tell you a little story. When I first got into this, I went to a seminar with one of the big holiday letting agencies, they invited me to come and speak to prospective new customers and I learned that that company shut up because said owner of company once went to a holiday let very, in a very excited fashion, in a very large Black Range Rover, and they backed Black Range Rover into the drive of said holiday, let property in Southern Cornwall. And then they couldn't open either door of the Range Rover because it wasn't big enough, and they realized their whole holiday was a complete. Not disaster, but you know, they had to park the car somewhere else so they couldn't get out the bloody car. So that's, you know, a story and that's what made him set up this holiday letting agency and be honest to the customer and show the customer exactly what you were getting for your money. So that's, you know, uh, I think a really important tale. Jules, before we just move on, anything else about holiday lets you want to say any areas that you can see coming? Anything else that you, any other messages that you have?
So I think, you know, there is still despite doom and gloom, which I know we love to talk about in the UK and there is a lot going on. Absolutely. You know, the economy is kind of crazy. You know, we are really feeling it as lenders. Oh my goodness. I can't imagine what brokers and IFA’s, et cetera, feeling right now. It's all very, very challenging, but I still feel there's an opportunity. But I think just as an industry, we just need to come together. So, for me, these types of conversations are just really great that I can talk to, you know, our strategic intermediary partners with a common goal to support our customers. And I think as an industry, that’s what we need to be doing more, not just in the holiday let space, but in the lending space overall. What we are seeing at Hodge is that customers incomes are becoming more complex, people are not perhaps doing that 9-5 PAYE kind of job anymore. So yes, let's just be having those open and honest conversations about how we can all support the customers achieve what they want to do with, you know, with the best options available to them.
Okay. Brilliant. That's really good. And because actually I saw on a broker Facebook for the other day, Lord forbid that I'm reading such stuff, but I saw one another thing someone described to you as the Hodge Building Society. Can you just tell us who Hodge not the Building Society.
No. So, we are Hodge Bank. So, we are a local, we're a Welsh based bank and we were set up by a gentleman called, called Julian Hodge, and it is still family owned but we are 79% owned by the Hodge Foundation. So, we are a charitable foundation. So that is, you know, that is our key purpose really is using finance for good. Our, you know, our mission is that all of our profits go into the charitable foundation, which we then give back to predominantly the local community, but wider. You know, we do support a lot of mostly local kind of charities, et cetera. So, we are very much a bank. We are still very much family owned and we are owned predominantly by the Hodge Foundation.
So, it is really good to know, seriously that the money is going to, the profits are going to charities, so it's really good. Let's, let's finish up because a really big, strong area that you're good at is the later life lending. You know, you'd be surprised, well you wouldn't be surprised because you know this stuff, but lots of people. Ask me, Mark, is it even possible to get a mortgage after I'm 60? And that kind of stuff. So, do you just want to talk a little bit about the opportunities there for people to borrow later life?
Yes, absolutely. So, couple of kind of stats really first of all, the RIO, the retirement interest only mortgage has just turned five this year and we were one of the first in that space. So it's been a bit of a slow burn as you can probably imagine from, you know, the market industry stats.But we are actually starting to see some traction there. So, I think. In terms of the mortgage industry, five years, it's probably not that long a time for a product to kind of embed and for brokers to understand it and certainly for customer customers to become aware of it. So yeah, I think watch this space for the RIO, for example.
But I was also doing some, some research for a presentation the other day. And a very interesting statistic I thought, was that in 2021, so slightly historic, but. 53% of lending in 2021 was to the over 50 fives. So, for me, there's a couple of angles there. First of all, it is interesting that there is still that availability to the over 55’s and that people are living longer. They want to stay in their homes longer, they're working longer. That is absolutely something that we see a lot of at Hodge and that we discuss quite a lot. And, but also, I feel that there is still that challenge for the younger demographic to be able to get onto the property ladder, not just from saving a deposit, but there are also affordability constraints as well now. So again, I think when I think about the industry joining up. I think there's also an educational piece from that kind of intergenerational support from both ends of the spectrum, the later life and, and the first time buyers getting on the property ladder. So, I think for us at Hodge, we are quite well placed to be able to support that. That is absolutely something that we are keen on -- on progressing that kind of educational piece within the intergenerational lending space.
Yes. In your senior years you can borrow money and RIO is not just a beach where they played volleyball. RIO is a retirement interest only mortgage.
That's correct. And you have products that go alongside that as well. Because RIO’s don't suit everybody. Can't suit everybody. But, so that's fine. Jules, I think we're done. Anything else you want to say? Any final message?
No, but I'd love to come back and talk to you about the later life space. I know it's something that you are looking at doing.
So, we'll do that. I'm really getting involved.
Yes, we'll do that. And I'd be very happy to come back and talk to you again if you’ll have me. I've really enjoyed shooting the breeze with you today, Mr. Stallard as always. So thank you very much for, for having me on the podcast and always happy to come and talk to you again.
Well, that's absolutely brilliant. I've had to be relatively well behaved today. So, Jules, thank you very much. Thank you, Hodge, for giving up your time. There are other lenders in the space. I should say that of course, anybody in the property industry who wants to come on and talk to me about property, about tax, about surveys. You are more than welcome. If you've enjoyed the podcast, please like, send me money, send me chocolate, absolutely brilliant, thank you very much indeed. Thank you, Hodge, for all you do for us, because at the end of the day, it's about putting someone in a lovely home. I've stayed in one or two of those homes that, you know, we've lent on, and I've thoroughly enjoyed, you can see it's lovely to see the end result, someone really enjoying it, someone doing well, making, making some money. There's nothing wrong with that, so it's really great and thank you for all you done and thank you for your team. Thanks. Bye.